Scam Alert! AMBERGRIS CONNECT and FACEBOOK AMBERGRIS PUBLIC GROUP – TONY WELLS, JO SMITH……See here for details.
Scam Alert! IFRA – (International Fragrance Association) – Toxic Ambrox. See here for details.
Scam Alert! Steven J Rowland – Shaman – former Professor University of Plymouth. See here for details.
Scam Alert! DUNCAN HAROLD PAYNE – Facebook Southern Ocean Ambergris. See here for details
Scam Alert! Aaron N Jacobs – Sentry Services Ltd and Molly Morgan, both L.A. USA. See here for details.
Scam Alert! MUSTAFA KASSIM – Facebook Ambergris/Ambregris Buy/Sell Public Group – Ambergris Hunter. See here for details.
Scam Alert! Amber Gris (Facebook) – Mexico – aka Shawn London/Hurst. See here for details.
Stuff NZ
Ambergris and the Media
Have you found ambergris? Are you trying to authenticate your find? Or are you trying to buy ambergris? Beware!
Frauds, liars and cheats are trying to deceive you.
The ambergris industry has undergone some changes in the last decade or two. The information we read on the internet is not necessarily relevant and some is downright misleading. Why is this so you ask? Before you read on here’s some essentials:
Do not throw away your suspected ambergris, even if someone claiming to be an “expert” says it isn’t.
Do not accept the opinions or assertions from those who have only seen photographs of your suspected ambergris.
Do not accept any GCMS test or other lab test of your suspected ambergris.
Read – What is ambergris?
If you are thinking of buying ambergris read this article first.
First, some ambergris history…
As most will know ambergris is used in the perfume industry as a fixative. Up until about the 1970s nearly all perfumes of note used an animal based fixative. Civet, musk and ambergris were mostly used. The former two were largely abandoned mainly because they involved cruelty (in the case of musk – death). Ambergris prevailed as most ambergris was recovered as jetsam from beaches around the world. The whaling industry produced some but whaling was being phased out.
As demand for perfumes increased so to did the need for ambergris. There were some synthetic products, and some organic alternatives at that stage but those were not yet viable. Developments were in place for a viable synthetic alternative but at that stage nothing was available to appeal to most large fragrance manufacturers. Ambergris had two problems for perfumers. One was consistency. Ambergris contains animal pheromone that is peculiar to the individual whale that created it. One piece of ambergris would provide a different result to another. Large whole blocks or coproliths were very popular because they provided a consistency of product therefore perfumers could make large quantities of a popular fragrance. When the ambergris block ran out so too did the perfume. The large coproliths were sometimes recovered as flotsam or jetsam but most derived from the whaling industry which was in decline at the time (and is now almost eliminated). Most ambergris came as jetsam or flotsam so was mostly random quantities which appealed less to perfumers. The other problem the perfumers had with ambergris was supply.
The supply chain.
The supply of ambergris went as such:
Hunter/Collector – Trader/Broker – Supply House – Perfume Manufacturer.
The problem was with the middle-men, the Trader/Brokers. They would not be the first middle-men to damage the industry to which they served. Indeed the fragrance industry has had its fair share of difficulties with those who buy and sell on ingredients. They sometimes tend to focus on how the process may benefit their bottom line without concern of how that may detriment the producers and/or the end users. With a long established industry such as the ambergris trade it was possible that traders could collude. The supply houses were mainly Givaudan and Firminich, two very large Swiss concerns that brought most of the worlds supply of ambergris at the time. However there were two markets for ambergris.
European and Middle East.
The two primary markets at the time were the European market and the Middle Eastern market, which included India. The Europeans brought mostly lighter coloured ambergris which was generally milder in aroma and therefore more suitable for European perfumes. The Middle Eastern market was substantial however they focused more on the darker ambergris which was cheaper. Because white ambergris is more expensive and rarer the Traders found the European market more lucrative.
An exclusive and ancient trade.
The ambergris trade is centuries old. Entry to it has been by association. Unassociated entrants were treated with hostility. This surreptitious association of traders resulted in price and supply fixing. They knew the market well. The greater the demand and lesser the supply the higher the price. The traders would pinch the supply collectively and with increasing demand from perfumers the price would go high and stay high. This incensed the perfume manufacturers even more who then put pressure on the supply houses to rack-up efforts in developing a viable synthetic alternative.
These associated traders were also the buyers of ambergris and they cornered that market also. They would buy up cheap ambergris by maintaining collectively low pricing. The traders stockpiled considerably large amounts of ambergris for speculation on the supply and demand market which, which at the time they controlled…
…but not for long…
The traders were well aware of research and development into viable alternatives to ambergris. Most products were inferior. However the traders knew a viable option was inevitable. They just thought that any alternative would be gradually accepted, a phase-in and phase-out process giving them opportunity to off-load their stockpiles.
By about 2005 both Givaudan and Firmenich had developed viable synthetic alternatives to ambergris as a fixative and exaltor. They abruptly ceased supplying ambergris to the perfumers. They provided only their synthetic options. Just as abruptly the two big supply houses stopped buying ambergris. Because they both purchased most of the ambergris destined for the European perfume industry the market declined considerably. Traders were left holding stockpiles of ambergris that they intended to speculate on. Much of it was lower grade material. They tended to sell high grade quickly as it fetched the highest price.
The perfume manufacturers are mostly happy with the synthetic options. They perform well with the fixative and exaltation qualities being similar to ambergris. Its consistency means that perfumers can crank out large volumes of consistent product. It doesn’t contain the pheromone component which the perfumers believe customers would not notice. However for natural perfumers and the very high-end perfumers the synthetics are not an option. A niche market still exists.
Damage Control!
At the time of the crash the former traders held most of the worlds commercially available supply of ambergris. They knew even the diminished market would need ambergris eventually. The former traders greatest fear today is more ambergris coming onto the market. A kilo of top grade ambergris being made commercially available by others than themselves is a kilo of ambergris they won’t sell. If they can prevent further ambergris becoming commercially available then (they believe) the market would eventually be forced to their doorsteps.
Today the former traders are active in deceit. They pose both collectively and individually as online “experts” offering to authenticate or buy your ambergris. They invariably do neither, although they are almost guaranteed to inform you that you do not have ambergris.
Elements of the associated former traders have created a website in which they claim to be “go-betweens”. They are infamous for their “paper test” which they referred on their website as a “definitive” test for ambergris. It remained on their website for over a year. They even made a YouTube video for it. The test was a fake. Its intention was to deceive. The fake “paper test” disappeared from their website some months ago, presumably as a result of some intervention. The YouTube video has since disappeared also. The “paper test” is still given some reference on their website in their identification page; “…break off a piece for the paper test…” , confirming its prior existence.
However the website is slick and even appears authoritative. They include some factual material thereby lending the appearance of credibility. They are highly unlikely to accurately identify your ambergris though.
The same group of former traders has created a Facebook public forum. They claim to be able to authenticate ambergris by way of photographs sent to them. It is impossible to authenticate ambergris by way of photograph. Any person claiming to do so is a liar. The former traders operating the facebook public forum invariably mislead people by telling them they don’t have ambergris when they most certainly do. They abuse Facebook facilities when they deliberately seek to deceive others.
These former traders have teamed up with at least two academics (UK based) as their “lab testers”. One performs GCMS tests both on the traders behalf and independently. The tests are fake and the results are invariably falsified as negative. That academic is presently the subject of a criminal investigation.
The former traders have gained some support from the perfume industry, albeit small. At least one mid sized natural perfumer (US based) has taken up with them for supply; more out of desperation than wisdom. Ambergris is illegal in the USA and that can make supply challenging at the best of times. However most of the worlds perfume manufacturers regard the former traders as hostile and are reluctant to deal with them. They will need ambergris some time however.
Where to from now?
The ambergris market hasn’t disappeared. The supply chain has been broken. Perfumers previously brought their ambergris from supply houses whom they trusted and had established a long relationship with. The prospect of having to deal directly with random individuals is unappealing to most perfumers. Until there is a trustworthy element for perfumers to rely on the market will remain difficult. This plays into the former traders hands. Therefore the fraudulent element will need to be eliminated.
Can I still sell my ambergris?
There is still a demand for ambergris. Very high-end perfumers use it, but accessing that exclusive and elusive market would be a challenge and they would demand quality with quantity. Natural perfumers also use ambergris. However they also will be unenthusiastic about dealing with random individuals clutching unauthenticated ambergris.
Hobbyists and amateur perfumers use ambergris. They tend to seek smaller amounts. Selling and buying online is very difficult, as it is with fragrance. If you were going to try to sell online selling local would be ideal. If people can see, smell and feel the product they are more confident than relying only on photos. Eventually there will exist an online marketplace for ambergris but first the fraudulent element attempting to sabotage every effort would need to be eliminated.
Ambergris Beware intends exposing and naming the individuals and organisations involved in ambergris fraud. They are cheats and liars who seek to deprive and disadvantage others in the hope that they may gain.
In the interests of prudence Ambergris Beware have decided to temporarily withhold full disclosure of names until sufficient feedback from the public reinforces the accusation that these former traders and their associates are acting fraudulently
Ambergris Beware needs public feedback. Please share your experiences with individuals or organisations in the ambergris trade. Send us your comments!
Buying ambergris.
If selling ambergris looks challenging the process of buying it can be even more so.
Before buying ambergris research thoroughly. This cannot be stressed enough. When using the Web take most brokers websites with a grain of salt. If a site refers to ambergris as “whale vomit” it would be best to leave that site and move on. Ambergris is not whale vomit. It is extruded via the whales rectum. Wikipedia offers some basic information and articles from pre-2000 academics are useful. There are few relevant or reliable academic accounts in recent years. Be wary of some UK academic accounts, some are factually flawed. Avoid forums like Basenotes, they contain comments from amateurs who generally parrot misinformation by media sources and other amateurs. Disregard an article by Claire Vukcevic. She is a mouthpiece for Pat Lillis and others involved in ambergris fraud. Her article is factually flawed, a matter which we will expand on soon.
Do not accept the assertion that ambergris must be this or that, or not be this or that. Ambergris varies greatly. It can be very white or almost jet-black. It can be grey, brown or amber and everything in between. Ambergris can be soft like putty or almost as hard as coal. It can be crumbly, waxy, chalky, grainy, smooth, round, flat, strata, jagged and any shape or size. Ambergris does not have to include squid beaks. Sperm whales also eat sharks and rays. Avoid any website that attempts to define ambergris if all you want to do is buy ambergris.
Ambergris varies greatly. This small collection displays only some of the variations with ambergris. Indeed it only comprises ambergris recovered from the Southern Hemisphere which is generally lighter coloured and finer in texture that the northern material which is generally darker grey and brown and grainier in texture
The web is a playground for fraudsters. Unfortunately institutions like Ebay and Facebook etc can unintentionally harbour attempted fraudsters. It nearly always takes public intervention to remove the fraudsters. It is good advice to avoid those venues.
Determining which sites sells real ambergris and not fake can be a challenge although there are usually some indicators. Photos are the only means an online buyer has to help identify the product. If the photos on display are poor and few then it’s wise to leave.
The former traders will want to sell you ambergris. It may be real but expect poor quality and expect to pay an exorbitant price. They invariably charge 3 to 4 times the price of genuine vendors.
When searching the web go well beyond the first few pages. Those are occupied by the former traders. The search engines algorithms include age of site and as the former traders are long established they occupy the front. Genuine sites can be found way further down the list. Regard your on-line ambergris hunt as you would hunting for ambergris on a beach, you will pick-up and discard many possibilities before you are rewarded with the genuine ambergris you seek. The site should display ambergris for sale without ambiguity. The more photos a site has the greater the opportunity to determine authenticity of the material. Avoid vendors who cut or sell cut ambergris. Ambergris should be sold or bought as a whole block or piece. Cutting ambergris is a industry no-no. If a vendor cuts it that indicates an unprofessional approach.
Proceed with caution but avoid delaying your purchase. Ambergris tincture takes at least 6 months to macerate and at least another 6 months to age, the longer the better. Process the ambergris without delay. That allows plenty of time to perfect the perfume bases.
We welcome comments regarding the purchase of ambergris. Please send us your comments.
Ambergris Beware is a not-for-profit forum managed by volunteers. We do not display advertising nor can we publish comments that directly promote any specific brand, product or service. We do however promote the acquisition, use and discussion of ambergris.
ambergrisbeware.com – 2020 – Copyright – all rights reserved. Privacy policy
Hello Dennis. Flinder Gao or flindergao is a known associate of the scam organization Ambergris Connect. Flinder Gao is a ambergris scammer. He also uses the name Xiang Gao. Findergao is based in Guangzhou China and also has links in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Philippines, Australia and New Zealand. flindergao has recently acquired a small quantity of authentic ambergris from a genuine vendor in New Zealand. This he uses as bait when sending a small sample to his victims. He hopes the victim will follow up with a larger order and that’s when flindergao provides the fake material he gets from his Ambergris Connect associates via the facebook pages you have referred to. We recommend that you do not buy from flindergao. We have sent contact details of the genuine vendor in New Zealand (to the email address you have provided). Not only will you get real ambergris but you will find the pricing more favorable than that being offered to you by flindergao. Thanks for your comment and good luck.
Recently I have been offered ambergris for sale by someone called Flinder Gao who is chinese I think. When I checked his name I found a business listing website with that name selling LED lights. Then I found 2 comments made by flinder gao in 2 facebook public group pages that looked to be scammers pages for people trying to sell fake ambergris. flindergao claimed to be a buyer of ambergris on these pages. Does Ambergris Beware have any information about flindergao . Is he a scammer or legit? Thanks.
AmbergrisBeware did not make the assertion that you are a scammer lightly. You had listed to sell , and appeared to have sold something in excess of 30 pieces of “ambergris”. This provided a lot of material to assess. Your biggest failure in your attempt to deceive was that you failed to adequately conceal the scalloped edges of the rock oyster shells you were using to build your fake material. Your tactics are similar to those used by Duncan Payne. Like him you create fake sales to your associates. Most, if not all your Trade me sales were fake including the 20+ to Matthew Turner. And you have used those fictitious sales to contrive a dispute over the authenticity of the material. Like Duncan Payne your role is to create distrust and chaos in the ambergris industry. And like Duncan Payne you make reference to AmbergrisBeware as if it is here to serve the likes of you. It is because of scammers like you that AmbergrisBeware exists.
AmbergrisBeware agrees with you on one matter. Yes, Matt Turner is an ambergris scammer. And you are his associate.
Hello Sophie. Thank you for your information. It is helpful to receive updates of these con-artist’s activities. We always hope that people read this webpage before committing but it is not always that easy. Please do advise other people of AmbergrisBeware. The dishonest and deceitful conduct is not confined just to ambergris but also to other natural products used in the fragrance industry. The better informed people are the less success the con-artists will have.
Hello Shahu. Sorry AmbergrisBeware does not attempt identification of suspected ambergris. Try to find an honest and trustworthy person in your region who has existing ambergris and compare. Good luck,
I came to this site completely by chance when I tried to educate myself about real and fake ambergris and I read about Mustafa Kassim and his ambergris fraud. Well, he seems to be a true criminal since he is cheating his buyers not only by providing fake ambergris, but also by taking their money for incense resins under the company name “Essential Frankincense” and then never sending the paid goods. Buyers will become blocked and conversation will be quit long before when they contact him about not receiving their order. Unfortunately, I am one of his victims. Fortunately, I did not buy from him ambergris too, “only” frankincense, myrrh and other resins. So you cannot warn people enough here.
hi there my Trademe name is dragon99999. and I’m not a scammer. I do not sell fake ambergris. Can you please tell me my that you think I’m a Scammer? can you please provide me with evidence? my Trade me name appears on your comment as a Scammer After I’ve sold my ambergris to Matt Turner. This person Matt Turner is the ture scammer. and his name appears on this website. I do not recommend anyone to seek advice or sell ambergris to this person, He has tried to Scam me recently
It’s Shahu from MALDIVES. I have found this on the beach. Can you please tell me if it’s an ambergris. Did the needle test and it melts, also did the spoon test it’s flammable. It gave white smoke too. But the shape of it is not round. It’s in more white in color with some sea shells is on it. It have a waxy texture. Smells not good.
Waiting for your acknowledgment
Ambergris Beware has been watching that site for several months. There are 2 sellers. One appears to be authentic and the other is most certainly fake. The fake one is selling rock oyster shells and drift wood coated in light brown wax and dusted with a white powder, and lumps of partly decayed bull kelp root stumps. The scammer operates under the trade name “dragon99999” on the Trade Me site. And yes it is cheap but then there is something of a mini war going on, no doubt generated by the scammer. It may be worthy of an article though for 3 reasons, one being it is a good example to why people should consider avoiding these types of sale platforms when buying or selling ambergris. The second is there is a strong Ambergris Connect presence in this matter with a number of identities involved being known New Zealand associates of Ambergris Connect. The third is that most recently a third seller has entered the debacle and he is a journalist for Stuff NZ who is picking a fight. It is regrettable that this person is also a child sex offender.
Hey there i was looking at a sales site in New Zealand called Trade me and theres some ambergris selling. Its really white and on a blue background all looks similar whats with it . Is it real or another fake site. its cheap to.
Thank you for your support and kind comments. Unfortunately AmbergrisBeware cannot help you with names of genuine buyers as presently none have appeared. As to how much per gram that appears somewhat subjective. A price is what one person asks and another pays. There appears to be no fixed standard. However AmbergrisBeware is currently working on an international trading base for ambergris, however the challenge is to deal with the saboteurs in the synthetic ambroxan trade. Once this is completed we will advise. So please keep checking this site for updates to that.
Thank you indeed for all the helpful information’s I read from your blog and with that I would also like know about the names of genuine buyers of ambergris and how much per gram?
Hi, such comprehensive and great information regarding ambergris trade and its pitfalls. But not a single lead on ANYWHERE reputable to buy or test ambergris. Or what a legit chemical test would look for. There must be legit places to do both these things in the world?
Hello Anton.
Apologies for the delay in responding, covid etc. You are not the first and only to be confused by the ambergris industry.
Responding to your question about tests. There are labs that will offer to test ambergris however aside from the cost why would you believe them? More importantly why would anyone who is looking to buy your ambergris believe the results? This site has exposed several academics involved in ambergris fraud. This casts doubt on the scientific community in general. The businesses making and selling synthetic ambrein substitutes have a vast collective income. They fund lobby groups such as the IFRA where they can attempt to conceal their activities in sabotaging their competition, the ambergris industry. Forget the labs.
It is unclear whether you seek confirmation of authenticity for your own purposes or for those who may seek to buy it. If for your own ends then you could obtain a confirmed sample from a reliable source and perform the hot needle test on both pieces. You should, of course, be 100% sure that you are offering genuine ambergris for sale.
Selling ambergris is difficult in the present climate. The synthetic manufacturers are funding a campaign of chaos in the ambergris industry that is helped along by the large amount of online scammers that pervade the internet. No serious buyer is going to purchase commercial quantities online. They will need to assess the ambergris first-hand. This may involve expensive travel.
There is one curious aspect to your comment. Your email address is Swiss based using the domain suffix .ch . The domain also appears inactive. However you have stated that you live by the sea yet Switzerland is landlocked. ?
Hi there,
i am confused. What can i do now , or where can i test a found? Are there any serious provider for the laboratory tests?
And where to sell after a positive result?
I have only recently started working with ambergris, I live by the sea and have found several pieces that I would like to analyze.
thanks for any support
Ambergris Beware searched “Ambrox and Ambroxan” (Ambroxan is a general term given to synthetic ambergris substitutes). We noted that it had its own “Ambroxan Headache” listing. It is also known as Ambroxan the Toxin. There is a considerable amount of information about this in numerous online forums such as ‘Reddit”. We then considered that Ambroxan and its various brand names is a threat to the natural and organic ambergris industry. That led us to consider that FAPG has not once in its three and a half years ever referred to the threat of synthetics nor has it published a single post about this threat’s potential toxic reaction. Are FAPG promoting synthetics in the course of denigrating the ambergris industry? Ambergris Beware believes so, and we believe that the beneficiaries of this are Firmenich.
Ambergris Beware regards the deliberate issuance of false Certificate of Analysis by academics very seriously. It impinges not only on the institution the academic represents, or just academia alone, but it severely compromises the integrity of the scientific institution as a whole. Academics, such as Steven J Rowland, are on occasion required to provide expert forensic evidence in the course of a criminal trial. The prospect of a deliberate false Certificate of Analysis has profound consequences and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. This act by Steven J Roland raises serious questions as to the reliability of academia.
Ambergris Beware has sufficient evidence to proceed. We intend to see Steven J Rowland, and any others who aid and abet him, prosecuted and convicted.
Ambergris Beware seeks any information regarding Steven J Rowland, University of Plymouth, Vera Fitzsimmons-Thoss, University of Bangor, or others that are suspected of falsely representing an analysis of ambergris.
Steven J Rowland’s association with the scam shell company “Ambergris Connect” is well documented.
After reading an article dated 15 April 2016 written by (Doctor) Vera Fitzsimmons-Thoss I emailed on 21 March 2018 and asked if she could do a test for authenticity of ambergris.
Vera Fitzsimmons replied 23 March 2018; “Thanks for contacting me. Since writing the article , a company has been established to check suspect ambergris finds and, if ambergris, connect them with potential buyers. Could you please contact them at ambergrisconnect.com.”. (sic)
I soon discovered the fake “paper test” and also noted Prof. Steven Roland’s name on the ambergrisconnect.com website. On 9 A2018 I emailed Vera Fitzsimmons-Thoss; “The company you have referred appear to be brokers. I had hoped for an independent and objective assessment and would wonder if those with a financial interest can be entirely objective. Do you have any idea who operates this company? I have not noted it before. What I have noted is that in the ambergris industry there are numerous frauds and fakes. You have indicated in your article that a market for ambergris is difficult to source. I’m a little worried that the company you refer is too convenient to be true. However I would be happier if I knew who or what operates the company before I proceed.”.
Vera Fitzsimmons-Thoss states 11 April 2018 ; “I know the company, in fact work with them, so I have no hesitation to recommend them. Please follow it up there.”. (sic)
Late July 2017 I read a brief article online written by UK Professor Steven Roland who asked for ambergris samples to be sent to him for his research.
On 10 August 2017 I sent 12 samples of authentic ambergris to Steven Roland at the University of Plymouth (UK).
On 24 August Professor Steven Roland states in his email; “We could not detect ambrein as the TMS derivative in any of the samples.”.
My email 28 August refers; “If it is not ambergris then what other marine based substance could contain the contents of a (presumably) whales digestive system? There is ample evidence that the material is marine animal based.”.
Steven Roland email 29 August states: “…we could detect no ambrein. I’m sorry to say.”. “The analytical results don’t allow a much more definitive assignment of the constituents. What other evidence do you have.”
Two possibilities: 1. Prof. Steven Roland has made a mistake. 2. Prof. Steven Roland is misrepresenting the results.
As to the former, Prof. Steven Roland states; “We also re-analysed the samples after treatment with a fresh batch of re-agent and we even examined one extract without derivatisation.”.
As to the latter, Prof. Steven Roland is associated with Ambergris Connect.
Has anyone else had dealings with Prof. Steven Roland regarding ambergris?
In the course of investigating Facebook Ambergris Public Group (FAPG) we noted that for an organisation claiming to promote ambergris they do little or no promotion at all. In fact they are far more negative than positive regarding ambergris.
The founders/administrators of FAPG are also proprietors and/of directors of Ambergris Connect in which they claim to buy and sell ambergris. In all other cases of buyer/sellers running a public page promoting their product they do exactly that – promote the product. An example, a business that buys and sells saffron. In their public group they post positive articles including photos that display saffron at its best, and posts telling people all the wonderful things they can do with saffron. They promote the reasons why saffron is brought and used including ideas and links to pages that also promote the use of saffron. They don’t constantly publish posts telling people their saffron is rubbish.
We scanned FAPG from its inception November 2016. We found the well over 90% of their page comprised “No its not ambergris”. We found that FAPG publish very few pages of authentic ambergris. Those posts including photos that FAPG claim is ambergris are of questionable authenticity. None are interesting however. FAPG are more likely to post negative photos such as those with alleged ambergris containing plastic with a ” Sadly….. ” comment.
Ambergris is primarily sold, brought and used as a perfume fixative. In that role it is superior to synthetic alternatives. No where on the entire FAPG page does FAPG refer to its use. They do not promote its use in any relevant way. They do not provide links to pages that encourage the use of ambergris, nor does FAPG provide any hints or ideas that would encourage people to buy and use ambergris. The word “perfume” is very rarely mentioned. Yet the founders/administrators of FAPG claim also to buy and sell ambergris.
We know that Ambergris Connect do not buy and sell ambergris. That may explain why they don’t bother to promote it on FAPG. The question is, why do they bother to spend time, effort and money on presenting such a negative profile of ambergris? People usually do things for a purpose, such as financial gain.
So we asked the question; Who benefits the most from a negative profile of ambergris? The answer; The manufacturers and suppliers of synthetic ambrein substitutes. The main players in the flavor and fragrance supply industry, which produce the synthetic ambrein substitutes , are Givaudan and Firmenich of Switzerland and International Flavors and Fragrances (IFF) based in USA. IN 2019 Firmenich alone accrued 4 billion Euros in net sales . May help explain why the word “perfume” is a prohibited word in FAPG.
The institutions that benefit the most from a flat ambergris market are the manufacturers and suppliers of synthetic ambrein substitutes. Givaudan and Firmenich, two Swiss-based firms, dominate the flavor and fragrance supply industry with a combined annual revenue of about 10 billion Euros. With this substantial income they are able to provide grants and funding to academic institutions such as universities, with Petrochemical faculties being a primary focus.
Update. Duncan Harold Payne has announced his latest Etsy sale on his Facebook page. Ambergris Beware predicts he will be arrested and charged in coming weeks for selling 7 grams of fake ambergris (pumice) on or about 16 January to an undisclosed NZ buyer. Read here for more.
This one is associated with Duncan Harold Payne. It is no mere coincidence that they commented almost simultaneously. They are both exponents of the “ambergris turns to stone” fiction, so that they may try and sell stone as ambergris. They maintain an online rapport. He appears a little confused. In his comment he alleges that Bernard Perrin and Bipin Patel are the same person yet in his Facebook entry he alleges that Bipin Patel is “aka Tony Wells”. We haven’t finished with this one yet.
As to his comment regarding our belief that any person claiming to be able to identify ambergris by way of photograph is a liar. We disregard his arguments. In fact having received his comments and that of his associate- Duncan Harold Payne we are reinforced in our conviction. We reiterate with emphasis. ANY PERSON THAT CLAIMS THAT THEY CAN ACCURATELY IDENTIFY AMBERGRIS BY WAY OF PHOTOGRAPH ONLY IS A LIAR, A CHEAT AND A FRAUD AND WILL END UP ON THIS PAGE. BE WARNED AMBERGRIS CONNECT AND FACEBOOK AMBERGRIS PUBLIC GROUP AND OTHERS.
Images and Facebook entries can be found here or http://www.facebook.com/snorks77
Update – 28 January 2020
As said we haven’t finished with this one yet. And we still haven’t.
The Facebook page “Amber Gris” is a fake page generated by Facebook Ambergris Public Group (FAPG).
FAPG are frequently “reported”. The reports are not made to a person but to the “intelligent computer design” or robot running Facebook. When a threshold of “reports” is met a switch is flicked, and if the page is new and without friends or followers it may simply be deleted. If it is established and includes many friends (or members if a group) then a person will be engaged. The person will assess the page for any content likely to offend and then contact the page owner with any relevant query.
To deal with this FAPG have generated their own fake critic pages which they refer the Facebook Investigator to as a representation of the pages (and identities) that oppose and report them.
The fake pages are carefully constructed to include 3 primary elements. One is the page must contain convincing critical content. However that content must be constructed so that ultimately it does FAPG or its devices no harm. The second is the identity must be presented as irrational, delusional, fundamentally incorrect and even potentially psychopathic. Third the identity must be promoting and/or selling fake ambergris. The fake must be such that it does not require an ambergris expert to determine this.
If the fake pages satisfy the Facebook Investigator then the case is closed and then FAPG’s threshold for “reports” is increased.
Facebook Page “Amber Gris” (snork77) is one such page.
Much reference is made to Bipin Patel, Ambergris Connect and a few other websites, but never FAPG. Ambergris Connect is a sham site. It is barely relevant in any search engine. The other websites referred are also shams. The network focuses on FAPG because Facebook is fast, real time and it provides the scammers with a profile of their victim before they strike.
Bipin Patel appears on “Amber Gris” page 1 August 2017. He asks a polite question. “Amber Gris” rants about babies with bath water. At no time does it substantiate its assertions. On 5 April 2019 “Amber Gris” appears to accuse Bipin Patel of reporting it to US Customs. “Amber Gris’ provides no evidence of this. So out of all this criticism of Bipin Patel and his devices Bipin Patel emerges appearing like a polite and law abiding individual, something he is not. First element complete.
Proving “Amber Gris” irrational etc. is easy. On 15 April 2019 it claims its ambergris has lost its content and it “weighs a lot more than it did 3 years ago. Its yarn on 24 October 2019 about ambergris “turning to stone” and “reversing fossilization” would help. But the most convincing would be on 17 March 2019:
Amber Gris Brian Latris “WHEN SOMEONE IS ASKING ME ABOUT THE PRICE OF MY AMBERGRIS, ON MY PAGE, YOU THINK ITS OK FOR YOU TO INTERRUPT AND TRY AND SELL YOUR AMBERGRIS? WHERE I COME FROM PEOPLE GET KILLED FOR LESS”
A Facebook Investigator could be told that the collections of alleged white ambergris displayed on 1 and 24 August 2017 are improbable if not impossible. However the piece displayed on 10 September 2017 would clinch the fake assertion. The scales display 6.8 lbs or 3 Kgs. The piece is simply to small to be 3 litres or more in volume. It would not float therefore it is not ambergris.
There is one thing that will alarm to Facebook investigator though. The page “Amber Gris” has about 5000 followers, and it is unusual for a deluded, irrational rock-scammer to accrue 5000 friends. The “Friends” page reads like Facebook “Rent-a-Fake-Friend, and the timeline like “Rent-a-Fake-Comment/Review” .
The most compelling evidence that this is FAPG is that no where in the page (or in the comment to Ambergris Beware 5 January) does “Amber Gris” refer to FAPG, yet FAPG is the primary forum for the scammers it accuses.
This person is the reason Ambergris Beware exists. He came to us claiming to be a victim, he is in fact a fraud.
Having reviewed his online activity it has been determined that he operates a scam. True copies of the images and comments can be found here and http://www.facebook.com/duncanharoldpayne
Duncan Harold Payne refers to ambergris “stone”. He has referred to it in his contributions to Facebook Ambergris Public Group (FAPG), a group that he accuses of being fraudulent. Ambergris does not become stone or rock. This is a fiction devised by the few rogue traders that try (and sometimes succeed) to sell pumice or limestone or other stone as ambergris. He has posted a photo on 16 December 2019 of alleged ambergris that he states weighs 13 kgs. The volume of the piece confirms it is indeed a rock. During July/August 2019 he was accused of selling 2 kgs of stone to a buyer in Singapore. He allegedly stole US$5000 from the buyer.
He continues to try and sell his product via Etsy and Facebook.
On 21 November 2019 he wrote an extensive letter to the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. In this letter he refers to “..a monopoly/cartel of established sellers.. artificially create a rarity so that the price remains buoyant”. Duncan Payne demands some of the highest prices in the world on his Etsy site. In the letter he provides an account of an alleged expenses paid trip to Singapore to sell his alleged ambergris. He claims that he was scammed.
Ambergris Beware strongly recommends that Duncan Harold Payne should not be approached for anything related to ambergris.
Hello Shawn London
Before making a substantive response or amending the above article could you please inform us of your experience or expertise that qualifies the assertion that you can identify ambergris by way of photograph sent to you.
Hello Troy. AmbergrisBeware does not provide an identification service. Getting an objective opinion would be tricky. There is one process that you could try. When macerated in oil, ambergris will infuse a distinctive aroma. It smells a little like halitosis. Assuming you have done the needle test and determined that it burns then you could finely grate a half gram or so and add it to 15-20 mls of carrier oil. Use fractionated coconut oil or other stable oil, others can go rancid. Leave it for a month or two shaking the bottle daily then apply some to your skin. It may take some time for the oil to dry off and expose the ambergris. If it smells distinctly of halitosis or bad breath then you may well have ambergris (or you have used the wrong oil). There is no guarantee to this as smelling can sometimes be subjective.
THE PERSON YOUR REFERRING TO BERNARD PERRIN, His real name is Bipin Patel. His main home is located in Gainsville florida. but he also resides in india and the UK. he is co conspire and partner with a few others who administer 95% of all internet pages related to ambergris. they are the administrators of “ambergris connect”, the scam page which is designed to collect all the free samples of genuine ambergris from the public, while at the same time, telling every person who sends them samples , that “its not Ambergris” when clearly it is. they keep their perfume lines constantly supplied with free amber this way. the main line which benefits from these samples is called Phoenix and its a perfume owned by partner Joseph Delapp. and produced and sold illegally in the united states. illegally because it violates the endangered species act by containing ambergris which is illegal in the united states. ive done extensive research on the same topic as your “ambergris beware” page, and have much detailed information to support your page. i have names, dates, locations…ect. there is one thing that you keep saying in your report here that i completely disagree with. you say that its impossible to identify ambergris from photos. and anybody who says otherwise is a liar. its true that many pieces, even the majority of the pieces of ambergris found, have changed so much (from its original form) after floating around in the oceans for years. that its hard to identify even in person until heated and smelled, and even harder or, to quote your article, impossible to identify in photos. this is true. still, there are many pieces of ambergris that still hold the original form and shape after floating around the worlds oceans for many years, that when seen in photos, with beaks protruding and its kidneys and strata still completely in tact. still holding that unique ambergris shape. that even in photos, its undeniably, beyond any doubt, identifiable as genuine ambergris. also, what about all the photos of other things like decomposing whale carcass, and sea sponge…ect, when people send me images of those and they ask me if its ambergris, from the photos its obvious that its not ambergris, its carcass, (animal fat). so i tell them as much. then, they will tell me (obviously they’ve read your, ambergris beware, page) ” i dont know what i’m talking about when i say its for sure 100% beyond any doubt, not ambergris. they quote your article, saying, because anybody who says that they can identify ambergris from an image is a liar. i think you need to expand on that bit of information. pointing out the things i’ve just mentioned.
I can give you few names. I sent a letter to MFAT a few weeks Past stating my own concerns. This is the acronym for New Zealands Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
On January 3 2019 Californian woman Molly Morgan took 3 photographs of authentic ambergris. The photos were of poor quality with glaring, shadowing and blueing. The photos were of 2 small pieces of ambergris at about 3 grams each. Molly Morgan sent these to Facebook Ambergris Public Group which is controlled and moderated by proprietors of Ambergris Connect.
On behalf of Ambergris Public Group, “Ambergris India” states; “I’m afraid, both these pieces don’t appear to be ambergris.”. Ambergris India is owned and operated by Nabil Valiulla. Nabil Valiulla is co-proprietor of Ambergris Connect and proprietor of Ambergris Candida.
Next and on behalf of Facebook Ambergris Public Group, Tony Wells states: “I’d agree these are not ambergris.”. Tony Wells is a UK based ambergris broker and co-proprietor of Ambergris Connect. Tony Wells maintains relationships with Jo Smith.
Molly Morgan then posts 5 more photos of poor quality with extensive image blueing. Tony Wells states; “I would say this is not ambergris. The texture is not right. They look (sic) also look pretty faty (sic) so Perhaps (sic) degraded oil…”.
Ambergris India (Nabil Valiulla) states: “I’d give a negative review for him and hold him accountable for misleading and cheating. Also, seek a refund.”.
Tony Wells states: “Thanks Molly and sorry this is not what you brought. The sad part is that its just man made waste.”.
Jo Smith is co-proprietor of Ambergris Connect. She has a personal relationship with co-proprietor – Tony Wells. Molly Morgan features on Jo Smith’s Facebook page as a “Friend”, thereby confirming an association.
See: Facebook/Ambergris Public Group/3 January 2019/Molly Morgan
Facebook/Jo Smith Ambergris Connect/Friends/Molly Morgan
Josef de Lapp is co-proprietor of Ambergris Connect. He also runs Ambergris USA and Rising Phoenix.
The founder and patriarch of Facebook Ambergris Public Group is Pat Lillis who is also co-proprietor of Ambergris Connect. Pat Lillis is UK based (Ireland) and also owns Celtic Ambergris and Coronation Ambergris.
Ambergris Connect also own Ambergris Africa, among others.
Ambergris Connect are known for their fake paper test which they were forced to delete from the Web.
The Ambergris Connect website refers to “lab testers”. Included in their name dropping is Steven Rolands and Vera Fitzsimmons-Thoss.
NOTE: As at 28 February 2020 the Facebook page of Facebook Ambergris Public Group has been wiped, therefore all entries referred have been deleted. Ambergris Beware (and Facebook) retain copies.
On 8 May 2017 Bernard Perrin, French proprietor of ambergris.fr received 6 photographs of authentic white ambergris comprising about 30 pieces totalling about 2.5kgs.
Bernard Perrin stated (email) that “it was not ambergris at all”. He stated, in his reply, “your product looks soft”. (The ambergris was in fact hard). In his next sentence he stated that he was an “expert in ambergris”.
The phase “looks soft is” nonsense. Nothing can look soft. It can look red or blue, or circular or square but it cannot “look” soft or hard. It can only feel soft. The phase “looks soft” is not the terminology of an expert.
I believe that Bernard Perrin of ambergris.fr knew that the material in the photos was indeed ambergris and that he wanted me to discard it so the ambergris would not become available commercially thereby providing competition in his marketplace.
Any person claiming to be able to authenticate ambergris by way of photograph is a liar.